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#31 Ray Smithers

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Posted 15 January 2006 - 01:02 PM

Hello all, I'm an old pigrancher and SR user... I haven't been around these parts in ages. I was sad when I recently had to nuke my Perception system (the damn thing kept working for years without a hitch, I wanted to start with a fresh registry) and looked to see what the latest version of SR is... rude awakening.

I sit down with Premiere occasionally and STILL try to shift drag clips to make copies. grrr.

I was thinking of looking towards Liquid since Avid bought it up and I could namedrop Avid as one of my software apps here. I'm thinking twice now from what I read above.

Laser Ed:
I do visuals for nightclubs and concerts too. I even use the Amiga (Pangolin) for my Laser Show. contact me off list if you're interested in talkin' business. alpay-at-smvisuals-dot-com

Rolly:
You practically described my exact set up, down to the ancient version of DF :)

Alpay

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Here is a short version of what happened here at the Pig Ranch.

We loved SR and the people there. We worked very hard to help them grow and serve the end users. But many of the most important and passionate people at In:Sync left the company. I know none of the details of why this happened, people who were our very good friends were very polite and professional about it and simply said things like “I could not take it any more”.

It was at that time we saw the end of In:Sync coming and decided to turn the great SR list into a general editors list. It would have remained the same great group of people but a few members decided that we were crazy, In:Sync would do just fine and they started their own SR lists. There were several and that scattered the members to other lists and other software. But as the company started the practice of not supporting the product and releasing old software with new names people started to run for the doors.

We were running DigiSuite full so we were not tied into an editor and moved (very early) to Premiere then to Premiere Pro. When we developed the need for HD we started looking very hard at everything out there. Editing systems and cameras.

After more than a year of specs and techs, head scratching and learning we came to the decision that we simply were going to have to spend some money and make some major changes.

Like In:Sync we found Matrox a great company to deal with and decided to go with Axio (HD). Then we discovered that Matrox had gone turnkey with Axio and that is just NOT our flavor. When we build a video system WE need to have deep understanding of the computer and all hardware to deal with failures. Matrox insists that you buy Axio as a turnkey system and it must run on an HP. So thanks, but no thanks.

Next we decided on BlackMagic and DeckLink. Even though we heard scary tales about slow response to problems and drivers that did not work we would take the chance.

Last spring we decided to go with Multibridge Studio from BlackMagic and placed (and prepaid) our order. We were told it would be manufactured and available in about 90 days.

It never happened! Each month we were told it would be “next month”. Two weeks ago we were told that it would be delivered in late January. Then (ooops) we were told that they would start manufacturing in late January.

BlackMagic Design’s reputations of not giving a darn about the customer become painfully clear to us. We had invested a large amount of money to have other equipment in place to support the MultiBridge.

Now let me bore you with the details of another wrinkle in all this. Cameras.

When it comes to HD and HDV you now have a lot of choices. We made the decision during this long evaluation process that tape is dead. It is only a matter of time before NO camera will use tape. You know the long list of tape negatives. Tape does not store forever. Tape adds noise to the product. Tape has dropout and gets worse over time. In a world where average people are storing home photos on DVDs that they can give to their grandchildren why the heck is video still on tape?

Our other belief is that HDV is a simply not a good idea. We think that HDV will always be that middle format that never really gets respect. Kind of like the S-Video of this decade. I hate to use bad language in a public post but UPCONVERT is just not something you do to footage you love.

That left us only one camera, (if you don’t count the $100,000+ solutions) the Panasonic HVX-200 that uses P2 storage.

http://catalog2.pana...Model=AG-HVX200

This camera shoots real HD (1920x1080) and produces fantastic images. You can download short clips at our mirror site for DVXuser.com at www.RamGate.com

The HD product is saved in DVCPro HD and is only compressed at 100mbs, another reason the quality is SO fantastic.

More bad news looks now like Adobe wants nothing to do with DVCPro HD, at least not for a while. Version 2.0 is about to roll out and the posted product sheet says nothing about DVCPro Hd.

Yet another wrinkle is the fact that we have tens of hours of Betacam SP footage that we will always need to mix with our work. VERY few systems allow you to ingest analog material in a digital systems so this limited our choices as well.

Our end solution was Avid Express Pro HD. It solves most all of our problems. Not only can it work with DVCPro HD footage in its native format but also with the addition of the Avid Mojo unit you can import and export Betacam SP or any analog footage.

After using Speed Razor and Premiere Pro some many years I understand that I am in for a steep learning curve with Avid, so standby. I would not be surprised if Avid purchased Liquid to get the DVCPro (Liquid always has handled native DVCPro) or just wanted a CPU only solution in their catalog.

Here is a simple fact that I seem to never see stated:

If you only work in SD (DV) then you don’t need ANY special hardware, just a fast computer with a Firewire connection. Right now if you work in HD you will need extra hardware but even that will change. A few years from now computers will be so fast that people will edit HD home video on a laptop with ease.

If anyone is interested I will post my experience of a SR, Premiere guy moving to Avid.

Bottom line, Speed Razor is dead. Long live our great memories.

Ray

#32 Doug Collins

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Posted 15 January 2006 - 06:46 PM

I was thinking of looking towards Liquid since Avid bought it up and I could namedrop Avid as one of my software apps here. I'm thinking twice now from what I read above.

Alpay

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Alpay,

I must have missed something. What did you read above that makes you think tice about Avid Liquid?

Thanks,

Doug Collins

#33 alpay

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Posted 19 January 2006 - 05:52 AM

Doug: not that I'm pushing the idea of Liquid to the side, I just know I need to look a little deeper at it after reading what you said about it... crashing more is not what I want to get into. Also, I assume that with avid ownership will come an openess to capaptibility with other avid timelines and formats, maybe a plus for me in the future... In any event it looks like avid is investing in liquid rather than just stripping what they need from it. Would you reccomend Liquid over Express pro hd?

Ray: I'd love to hear about the growing pains, and opinions you've had with the switch towards avid. I am using PremPro now (and looking forward to Adobe's upgrades this month, noth Prem and AE), i don't need to capture too much legacy analog stuff, i can still use my perception. I just want to finally decide one one brand name and become pro at it. I always thought Premiere is an easy answer because timelines are interchangable with AE which I use alot - buuuuut its something I never do because of the way one of the apps load the others' timeline. it's not super intuitive the way things get laid out. I just end up rendering uncompressed video to bring back and fortch between apps like I always did. I wish it were a little more like the combustion-3dsmax marriage, that integration is so streamlined. If Discreet kept *edit going, I'd have probably jumped on that suite.

Thanks for the info guys.

Alpay

#34 Doug Collins

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Posted 19 January 2006 - 12:55 PM

Alpay,
Sorry, I didn't realize it was I wrote that made you think twice. I'm always looking for other opinions about Liquid and I thought I had missed one.

As far as crashing goes, don't go completely on what I said. This may be a system issue unique to my computer. I still have to investigate the problem further before I can blame the software 100%. Even with Razor, (which I was eventually able to get relatively stable) crashes were often caused by issues outside of the program. This is why some NLE companies are insisting on turnkey solutions.

I am hopeful that I can resolve the crashing issue I have with Liquid, but as I haven't fully migrated over yet and it is not top priority. I primarily use it for DVD authoring.

As far as Avid compatibility, personally I wouldn't consider that at all. If you want Avid, buy Avid. Liquid is Liquid at this point and I don't expect to see a merger of the product line. But then again, what do I know. I can't recommend Express Pro HD over Liquid, only because I haven't used Express HD. Perhaps Ray can, as I see he is using Express Pro now. My guess is that Express Pro HD is superior, but the reason I have Liquid is price. I believe Liquid is the most affordable solution out there right now, but I can be (and would be happy to be) convinced otherwise.

Thanks,

Doug Collins

#35 Ray Smithers

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Posted 29 January 2006 - 04:10 PM

Doug: not that I'm pushing the idea of Liquid to the side, I just know I need to look a little deeper at it after reading what you said about it... crashing more is not what I want to get into. Also, I assume that with avid ownership will come an openess to capaptibility with other avid timelines and formats, maybe a plus for me in the future... In any event it looks like avid is investing in liquid rather than just stripping what they need from it. Would you reccomend Liquid over Express pro hd?

Ray: I'd love to hear about the growing pains, and opinions you've had with the switch towards avid. I am using PremPro now (and looking forward to Adobe's upgrades this month, noth Prem and AE), i don't need to capture too much legacy analog stuff, i can still use my perception. I just want to finally decide one one brand name and become pro at it. I always thought Premiere is an easy answer because timelines are interchangable with AE which I use alot - buuuuut its something I never do because of the way one of the apps load the others' timeline. it's not super intuitive the way things get laid out. I just end up rendering uncompressed video to bring back and fortch between apps like I always did. I wish it were a little more like the combustion-3dsmax marriage, that integration is so streamlined. If Discreet kept *edit going, I'd have probably jumped on that suite.

Thanks for the info guys.

Alpay

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


While I wish I could write a detailed review of Avid Xpress Pro HD, I don't feel qualified to do so as yet.

It is up and running. The Mojo interface works really great and I have been captureing my Betacam SP (via component) for several days.

So far I have not put Avid through the paces but I will be over the next week or two, so stand by.

I can tell you that one thing you notice right away is how mature the product is. As I kick around in it I will often say "they must have a way to do that..." sure enough there seems always to be a way to get stuff done.

For example I lost a lot of my captures when a raid card died and I had to re-format my raid. :(

After the raid was back up I opened Avid with my fingers crossed.

It came up just fine and told me that all the footage I had captured was now considered off line (indeed it was way offline). I then simply dragged and dropped the text description of a chunk of footage from the bin and dropped it on the capture window.

Bang there all my ins and outs, just needed to load the tape and hit record.

Nice.

People talk about how Avid is really different then other editors and they sure are right about that. Coming from SR and Premiere and Premiere Pro it is a but of a learning curve. In a week or so I will have an idea if different is better.

So... more later.

Ray

#36 billyhseidel

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Posted 04 September 2006 - 07:43 PM

hmmmm.
sorry if I offend but its a dead product that wont support its users that paid for it...


If you already have Speedrazor 5.5 installed, there is no need to rerun the keygen
1. Instal and copy the keygen into your SpeedRazor directory
2.Run SpeedRazor, click on Buy now, choose "Enter a license code", paste the Locking Code into the keygen,
quit SpeedRazor and click on New in the Keygen to create a lservrc for your system


THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.
The Key gen work great. I now have 5.51 back again.
Bill




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