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Can Fusion 6.x Particles Create Crowd Scene Like This?


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#1 fusionWannabe

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 10:34 PM

This uses Particular 2 and After Effects:

video:
http://www.redgiants...ample.php?id=26

making of:
http://www.redgiants...ianttv/item/26/

I'm trying to figure out whether fusion's 6.x particle system can be used for this (is it more powerful than Particular & Form or less 'powerful'?) - and would certainly be interested in any techniques to improve on what they've done.

#2 Pilalitos

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 10:48 PM

You could even do that with Fusion 5. Nothing amazing about it.

#3 Sebastian Witkin

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 06:31 AM

You could even do that with Fusion 5. Nothing amazing about it.

Now thats what I call a helpfull answer!

#4 fusionWannabe

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 08:54 AM

You could even do that with Fusion 5. Nothing amazing about it.


So, Fusion 6.x's particles have the same features as Particular? I think at NAB, Particular announced support for Nuke, so that's going to be direct competition for Fusion.

Well, if there are no show stoppers, I'll dig in an see what kind of trouble I can get into. Wonder if I should wait a week or so until 6.1 as there are a few particle additions to 6.1?

#5 Pilalitos

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 09:44 AM

Now thats what I call a helpfull answer!


Definitely more helpful than yours! :mf_tongue:

#6 Pilalitos

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 09:50 AM

Wonder if I should wait a week or so until 6.1 as there are a few particle additions to 6.1?


The particle additions that Eyeon demonstrated at NAB were very powerful and certainly nothing you could do with Particular. The only thing they haven't done yet is the ability to use 3D geometry instead of sprites as particles.

Wait a few days for 6.1 and start experimenting. You'll see that your imagination will be the limit.

#7 fusionWannabe

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 11:00 AM

The particle additions that Eyeon demonstrated at NAB were very powerful and certainly nothing you could do with Particular. The only thing they haven't done yet is the ability to use 3D geometry instead of sprites as particles.

Wait a few days for 6.1 and start experimenting. You'll see that your imagination will be the limit.


Great! I'll look forward to 6.1. I'm glad I bought an EVGA nVidia card a few months ago!

BTW - if the Fusion developer's are reading this, it would be a great sales tool to have a site with regular complex tutorials for Fusion just like the http://www.videocopilot.net/tutorials/ tutorials for AE.

http://vfxhaiku.com/ is the most interesting Fusion site I've found (and I bought his very reasonably priced tutorial) - but I think he's still running 5.1 or 5.3.

Are there others I'm missing?

#8 pingking

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 03:46 PM

particular is "only" a 2.5d particle system, there is no real 3d space for the particles. the use some clever math to fake the illusion of being 3d. so at this point fusions real 3d particle system is more advandced then particluar. (nearly) all things you can do in particular can be done with fusion particles

eyeon has a youtube channel with some nice tutorials

#9 fusionWannabe

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 04:27 PM

particular is "only" a 2.5d particle system, there is no real 3d space for the particles. the use some clever math to fake the illusion of being 3d. so at this point fusions real 3d particle system is more advandced then particluar. (nearly) all things you can do in particular can be done with fusion particles

eyeon has a youtube channel with some nice tutorials


That's a very good point about full 3D vs '2.5'D!

Eyeon's youTube channel is nice, but it would be great if they just had one guy just devoted to turning out tutorials (kind of like the 'Proton' Vaughan of NewTech's Lightwave created their massive number of tutorials).

Having a massive library of short 'how to' tutorials, and a number of 'in depth' real world tuts, would really be a strong factor for new users and bringing users over from competing platforms.

Of course, I've been amazed at the number of really cool comps available on this forum.

This is a Great Fusion user community!

#10 ShadowMaker SdR

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 02:35 PM

I'd really like to do some tutorials, but I've had a bit of trouble coming up with things that might be worth looking at. Videocopilot.net is a great site and I learn some new stuff almost every time I visit, but I have no idea if that kind of tutorials would be of interest to the Fusion community. There are a lot of 'casual' After Effects users in addition to professional ones, and I haven't seen much requests for 'how to create a hole in the ground in Fusion' on this forum or on the Laffeylist.

So put in some requests and I'll see what I can do.

#11 fusionWannabe

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 03:32 PM

I'd really like to do some tutorials, but I've had a bit of trouble coming up with things that might be worth looking at. Videocopilot.net is a great site and I learn some new stuff almost every time I visit, but I have no idea if that kind of tutorials would be of interest to the Fusion community. There are a lot of 'casual' After Effects users in addition to professional ones, and I haven't seen much requests for 'how to create a hole in the ground in Fusion' on this forum or on the Laffeylist.

So put in some requests and I'll see what I can do.

That's a great offer!

I'll have to put my thinking cap on, but here are a few off the top of my head:

1. duplicate Videocopilot plasma ball tutorial with fusion http://www.videocopi..._light_casting/

2. use particles for crowd scene, have very realistic stage with giant video screens, moving spotlights on crowd, etc.

3. how to have green screen actor step thru a door and onto the other side (as the video would be on a different plane than the door)?

4. linear workflow tutorial, any tricks and non-obvious techniques

5. create wow factor tutorial using some of these techniques:

Thanks!

#12 Tilt

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 04:13 PM

1. duplicate Videocopilot plasma ball tutorial with fusion  http://www.videocopi..._light_casting/

2. use particles for crowd scene, have very realistic stage with giant video screens, moving spotlights on crowd, etc.

3. how to have green screen actor step thru a door and onto the other side (as the video would be on a different plane than the door)?

4. linear workflow tutorial, any tricks and non-obvious techniques

5. create wow factor tutorial using some of these techniques: http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Thanks!


The first video (nice tricks with the 2.5 D plasma ball that can be done with Fusion as well) is a prime example why a node-based app is a better interface for compositing :-) I cringe at the mess of windows and panels that AfterEffects forces on you.
This would be a great tutorial as it shows a wide range of techniques.

Number 3: Do you mean a greenscreen actor disappears inside a CG building? Just use a garbage matte on a Matte Control node or if the house is in 3D space render the geometry as a matte object. Or am I misunderstanding your question?

5: I guess that's probably rendered in a 3D app with photos projected onto geometry of rooms and actors. Just the grading and glows are compositing :-)

#13 ChadCapeland

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 04:19 PM

Number 3: Do you mean a greenscreen actor disappears inside a CG building? Just use a garbage matte on a Matte Control node or if the house is in 3D space render the geometry as a matte object. Or am I misunderstanding your question?


Even better, just render the greenscreen footage in 3D and let the occlusion happen on its own.

- Chad

#14 fusionWannabe

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 06:35 PM

The first video (nice tricks with the 2.5 D plasma ball that can be done with Fusion as well) is a prime example why a node-based app is a better interface for compositing :-) I cringe at the mess of windows and panels that AfterEffects forces on you.
This would be a great tutorial as it shows a wide range of techniques.


Yes, I actually went thru all those steps in after effects. A bit of a pain, not to mention that they use a number of 2D (or 2.5D) plug-ins to accomplish the total effect. Would be cool to see what Fusion could do on the same tutorial. Might turn a few heads from After Effects, at the very least.


Number 3: Do you mean a greenscreen actor disappears inside a CG building? Just use a garbage matte on a Matte Control node or if the house is in 3D space render the geometry as a matte object. Or am I misunderstanding your question?


Actually, I was envisioning the camera facing a door that has a porch with a bit of a drop from the door in height.

I guess the green screen actor would be on a plane in 3d space behind the door. I can't envision how he can walk 'through' the door, and step over the door frame and 'into' the area in front of the door - as the image plane the video 'lives' on would be behind the plane were the door lives in 3D space.

I can't get my head around how this would work - which means I'm obviously overlooking something very basic and obvious!

Thanks!

#15 Tilt

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 02:34 AM

Actually, I was envisioning the camera facing a door that has a porch with a bit of a drop from the door in height.

I guess the green screen actor would be on a plane in 3d space behind the door. I can't envision how he can walk 'through' the door, and step over the door frame and 'into' the area in front of the door - as the image plane the video 'lives' on would be behind the plane were the door lives in 3D space.

I can't get my head around how this would work - which means I'm obviously overlooking something very basic and obvious!

Thanks!



Does the camera move? Or more specific: Is there camera motion on the greenscreen plate? (If you have a static greenscreen shot and want to use that in an animated 3D scene you'll only have a small chance to make it look convincing due to perspective changes).

If the camera doesn't move, however, there is no need for a 3D space. Just transform and merge the actor so the scale looks right at the frame where he is exiting the door. Mask the actor until that point with the door and simply turn off that mask (or move the points off screen) when he steps out so from that point on he will overlap the house.







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