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Deep 3D Workflow For Fusion/3Ds Max/vray


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#1 savat

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 12:03 PM

Hi,
I'm wondering if someone can explain me if what I see in this video from second 14 is inside a comp software and if I can do it with the 3 softwares mentioned.

#2 Tilt

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 12:15 PM

Yes, that can be done in Fusion.

Looks like they turned all the rendered elements into particle volumes using the position pass (look for world position pass techniques here or on vfxpedia, if you're using max you also need the world pass converter macro). The fog and fume are also 2d layers as you can see in the breakdown sequence.

#3 pingking

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 05:00 PM

can also be projected textures on the geometry

#4 savat

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 07:13 AM

I remenber some posts here that speaks about the "deep" solution and looking for comp files linked.
what are the advantages from this tecniques over a real deep dimension?

edit:
hey tilt, the wpp converter is a your creation...can you comp a simple scene?

#5 Tilt

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 01:19 PM

I don't have a rendering from 3dsmax at hand right now. If you have one you're allowed to share (beauty + world position) I can make a comp.

What do you mean by "real deep"? It's all taking place in 3d space, using a position pass. If you use the position pass for masks or fog in your actual composite, it will even continue to work with any alternative "breakdown" camera moves.

If you're thinking about that exr 2.0 deep image stuff from weta... that's not necessary for that and max/vray can't even render it as far as I know.

#6 pingking

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 02:40 PM

vray has now some deep image rendering (at least in beta stage), dont know how it works or how the files look like. i just know it exits.

#7 savat

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 02:46 PM

tilt: I found an example of metadata files at anatomicaltravel.com, is possible to use it?
for real depth I intend the possibility to work between background and foreground objects in my rendered sequence (like in the linked video)

pingking: this is a good news but...is for nuke users or also fusion may benefit?

#8 Tilt

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 05:06 PM

Here's an example of turning a beauty pass into a particle system or a displaced mesh. It's a very simple comp. For a breakdown like in the video you would have a point cloud / mesh for every rendered element and instead of the placeholder text there would be all the image planes that were used in the comp (smoke, etc...).

I'm quite certain that the guys who made the video didn't use any advanced deep compositing for their breakdown.
Maybe - to get a better effect - they re-rendered some of the smoke layers using their making-of-camera move. But most of it looks very much like image planes.

http://www.vfxpedia....le_WPP_Demo.zip

Attached Files



#9 savat

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 05:35 PM

cool...many thanks.
surely part of the smoke in the kronos comp is a compilation of cards but pyroclastics are cg, however the result at all is not bad...;)

#10 robocop

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 10:59 PM

By the way, Savat, as always, you can find it interesting for you too..
there is an exr with position pass from real production.

http://www.pigsfly.c...topic=6003&st=0

#11 savat

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 05:12 AM

...
there is an exr with position pass from real production.

http://www.pigsfly.c...topic=6003&st=0


rich thread...thank you robocop, i'll study it carefully.

edit: wow...the linked thread took me far beyond my curiosity.

#12 Tilt

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 04:50 PM

I've updated the example comp on vfxpedia a bit more. enjoy :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YXi3ag6kJ0

#13 savat

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 03:00 AM

the output composition don't works properly on my machine but the comp itself helps very well :)
some questions:

- particles rapresentation is simply for a fast and light preview?
- is possible to track points of moving objects in world space? (e.g. if I have a rolling apple and I want to link my text on its rolling movement)

#14 bfloch

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 03:32 AM

Like the world "global" implies the coordinates are global and don't belong to any object. So if you have a WPP pixel representing position 1,1,1 in world space this pixel never moves or changes. It is only visible if an object happens to have a surface at this point. So there is no relationship between the world position and the geometry. What you rather need is a Object/Local Space Pass where the coordinates are local to the object and stay within its transformations.

If you want to control the object what you could do is texture map the WPP in the origin (3D App) and connect a (or all) 3D transform to Chad's ColorMatrixTransform Fuse which preprocesses the texture. This would give you the possibility to animate an object in Fusion and get the exact location of a point.

But that seems like a big hack, only as accurate as the texture and breaks if the pixel is behind other objects. What's wrong with using locators?

#15 Tilt

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 03:43 AM

the output composition don't works properly on my machine but the comp itself helps very well :)
some questions:

- particles rapresentation is simply for a fast and light preview?
- is possible to track points of moving objects in world space? (e.g. if I have a rolling apple and I want to link my text on its rolling movement)


hm, what exactly doesn't work? Maybe I can fix it (I also had some weird issues now and then and found projector bugs that I've reported to eyeon ;) )
The particles aren't completely dense. If you adjust the pImageEmitter density and its particle size you can create a particle cloud that represents the geometry better. Come to think of it... you could even animate the density so it looks like solid geometry at first, then it dissolves into particles...

For the moving object, I'd go with what Blazej suggested. Export locators from your 3D app. Or, you can create an animation path for your text and use the pick tool to sample keyframes from the world position pass along the path.




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