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Deep 3D Workflow For Fusion/3Ds Max/vray


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#61 leif3d

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 09:40 PM


Thanks for the detailed info. Yes, I can agree that RPS setup time is a pain in the ass, but it's so customizable. I do agree that as computing gets faster, shops will move to raytracers, as man power is more expensive than more computers.
As far as MB, DOF and DISP being as fast as a reyes renderer...hmmm...it seems hard to believe, especially since it goes against the logic of a raytracer vs a reyes renderer. I believe you... I just wonder how it's doing it...
It's so damn hard to understand any of the technology when it's not available to anyone but big studios. :)


Arnold's not just an executable you chuck geometry and textures at and get an EXR back. It's a complete C++ API as well. So you can use it to write your own raytracer / raycaster, and integrate it completely with your own tools and pipeline, and just let the Arnold library do the hard work behind the scenes. You can write your own integrator, accelleration structures, etc, etc, so it's pretty much as flexible as RPS... That's why the big studios are going for it (and why SA are not selling it normally).

The only other thing I know of it's not as fast with compared to PRMan is deformation motion blur (as opposed to just stocastically sampled transform of the primitive) - I think PRMan still wins here because they can do triangle culling which a brute force GI tracer can't do. But it's seriously fast.


Even more useful information. Thanks again.
If you're at siggraph let me know...I owe too many beers in this forum, so one more won't hurt...
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#62 savat

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 12:40 PM

I got a news about my problem...

speaking with Vlado (the vray brain programmer) he advised me to work in a range z_min=0 and z_max=1 in unclumped mode and this solve the big "low range problem" but highlights another trouble:
now I can extract my wpp from the Z_depth pass but it's a spherical domain because the Z_depth is calculated by a radius projection with camera center and not by a plane projection.

At this point, Vlado advised me another thing:
"another solution would be to use the VRaySamplerInfo render element, select "Point" as the type, and "Camera" as the coordinate system; then you'll get the Z coordinate in the blue channel as relative to the camera plane"...no, the pass needs to be extract by the Z_depth pass and cam infos but Vlado don't uses Fusion :( and don't konw its workflow.

this is the new Z_depth pass that makes spherical coordinates into the wpp extraction, look at in spare time, thanks.

#63 ChadCapeland

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 12:54 PM

Ugg. Z Depth is not Distance. It's the actual coordinates, not the distance. If you want to make fog, then the distance makes sense, but not if you want to do coordinate transforms.

#64 savat

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 01:30 PM

Ugg. Z Depth is not Distance. It's the actual coordinates, not the distance. If you want to make fog, then the distance makes sense, but not if you want to do coordinate transforms.


Chad, my question is: "can I extract a wpp from a z_depth pass + its imported cam? if yes, can I do it with max + vray?"
looking at this video the answer would be yes...how vray users have solved in fusion? how fusion users have solved with vray z pass?
too many questions, I know...toooo many.

ps: what's Ugg.

#65 ChadCapeland

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 01:34 PM

Currently, the tool requires what you are calling a planar Z. You want the distance from the camera plane, not from the camera itself.

#66 savat

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 02:05 PM

ok, clear as I like, thanks...now

...
At this point, Vlado advised me another thing:
"another solution would be to use the VRaySamplerInfo render element, select "Point" as the type, and "Camera" as the coordinate system; then you'll get the Z coordinate in the blue channel as relative to the camera plane"...


that's how Vlado assumed to solve for the "planar z" but I've tried to apply this method and it's unusable with the Fusion depth tools...or I'm wrong?

#67 Tilt

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 02:31 PM

Could you upload such a pass? I suspect that the direction could be wrong. Fusion wants negative numbers in its z pass, so if your z from vray has positive distance from the camera plane, just add a BrightnessContrast with gain = -1

#68 savat

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 02:48 PM

the scene is linked into the post #31, the z pass is is linked into the post #62 and here the cam position pass.

#69 renegadetracker

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 12:54 PM

Even more useful information. Thanks again.
If you're at siggraph let me know...I owe too many beers in this forum, so one more won't hurt...


Ha, chances of a lowly pipeline dev going to Siggraph = 0%.

If you do go though, Marcos Fajardo (Arnold's creator) is normally there, and he's normally surprisingly open about Arnold's internals and very happy to talk about it.

#70 leif3d

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 01:10 PM


Even more useful information. Thanks again.
If you're at siggraph let me know...I owe too many beers in this forum, so one more won't hurt...


Ha, chances of a lowly pipeline dev going to Siggraph = 0%.

If you do go though, Marcos Fajardo (Arnold's creator) is normally there, and he's normally surprisingly open about Arnold's internals and very happy to talk about it.

Sounds good, I'll hunt him down!

#71 Tilt

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 03:08 PM

the scene is linked into the post #31, the z pass is is linked into the post #62 and here the cam position pass.


well, that seems to work quite well. I've just piped the blue channel of your cam position pass into the z channel.

edit: VolumeFog needs the camera as well

Attached Files


Edited by Tilt, 08 May 2012 - 03:14 PM.


#72 savat

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:10 AM

yes...now the vray workflow for a real Z_Depth pass is complete!:)
thank all for patience and I hope this thread can be useful for more other people.

#73 nt65

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 08:24 AM

Yes or No?
Can Fusion load deep files .dtex?

Im still learning this stuff so go easy.
Im getting probably not as there are ways to "sort of" mimic it - yes?

thanks,
nick

#74 savat

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 08:55 AM

...
Can Fusion load deep files .dtex?
...



Other guys can reply more in "depth" but what I can say is:

Nuke workflow uses dtex format, Fusion not.

My problem was how to use Fusion depth tools with vray passes...experimenting with guys, is needed a world position pass (rendered in linear space) and a camera position pass to extract a real z depth pass.

Now, Fusion don't mimics Nuke, just every one have its depth workflow.

#75 nt65

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:21 AM

Thanks savat,
nice answer.
cheers.




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