Jump to content


Photo

Kak. Or Ibk For Fusion. It Sucks Less.

Macros Matte SecondMan

  • Please log in to reply
115 replies to this topic

#1 SecondMan

SecondMan

    Flying Pig

  • Adv Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,797 posts

Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:30 AM

"KAK is inspired by a well known and much discussed keyer featured in an alternative compositing application. However, it is not necessarily the same, as I am having to guess exactly how closed source tools work by using them over and over again. This is probably a good thing, as in its current form I already like KAK better anyway. It sucks less. Some familiar settings in KAK might yield results similar to those found elsewhere, but that's in no way a guarantee. Other settings on the other hand you might not find anywhere else or might work a hell of a lot better for your needs, who knows eh? Only one way to find out, so please read on and give it a go yourself!"

http://www.vfxpedia....KAK_Description

And now... some sleep :)

Enjoy everyone.

Pieter.
  • Attattaft likes this

#2 pingking

pingking

    Flying Pig

  • Adv Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 893 posts

Posted 13 September 2012 - 04:09 AM

have to make some test with it but sounds amazing!!!!!!!

and be sure i will look inside it and try to figure out what it does under the hood

#3 Gringo

Gringo

    Associate Administrator

  • Adv Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,455 posts

Posted 13 September 2012 - 06:39 AM

It sounds amazing indeed, especially for the Russians, because it's spelled just like Russian "HOW" :)

Great stuff, thanks for sharing!

#4 Pilalitos

Pilalitos

    Flying Pig

  • Adv Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 791 posts

Posted 13 September 2012 - 06:50 AM

I got some really good results in the first 5 minutes of using it!

I am using the Override with solid colour now until I understand how to use the other sliders. Need to do more testing!

Amazing job Pieter!

#5 SecondMan

SecondMan

    Flying Pig

  • Adv Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,797 posts

Posted 13 September 2012 - 11:30 AM

Thanks guys! :)

I was terribly excited after I built this and suddenly realised, once I put in the Screen Subtraction stage, that I nailed it.

@pingking: I long suspected IBK to be at heart a very simple keyer. Just something about its speed and in general the very soft mattes it produces. So that's why I was convinced that with some research it must be possible to do the same thing in Fusion. Most excitingly however, in most if not all of the footage that I tested, including terrible key examples compressed down to JPG (!), KAK generated better quality mattes than the tool I was trying to emulate! I think most of that is due to the fact that I built it around Fusion's Ultrakeyer, which is a better foundation than the vanilla, un-aided IBK in my opinion.

@Gringo: That's cool! :) It means different things in different languages no doubt. I sure get a chuckle out of using it ;)

@Pilalitos: Thanks! Nice to hear. Override is an emergency solution and is really quick and dirty compared to what it really can do. Possibly, if you turn it off again and set Erode to something like -0.02 and Edge Erode to 0,01 it should give you something indicative of what you can expect.

For those without test footage, try some plates from here: http://www.hollywood...reenplates.html

#6 leif3d

leif3d

    Flying Pig

  • Adv Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 554 posts

Posted 13 September 2012 - 12:54 PM

So far I can't get a clean key with footage with lots of green spill.
There seems to be little control for the matte itself without using a matte control and crunching the alpha.
It could also mean I have no idea how to use it yet :)

Thanks for the hard work!!!

#7 SecondMan

SecondMan

    Flying Pig

  • Adv Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,797 posts

Posted 13 September 2012 - 12:59 PM

Aha, a challenge! :)

You could be right - that's IBK's greatest weakness as well. Although KAK - I believe - is already better and I have had some nice results, it's on my to-do list to get better core matting without having to crunch it. See how I get on.

Is it possible to send me a single frame of what it is you're trying to key? I'd love to take a look.

Send it to me directly, or watermark it if you wish - it won't go further than me in person.

#8 leif3d

leif3d

    Flying Pig

  • Adv Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 554 posts

Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:13 PM

Aha, a challenge! :)

You could be right - that's IBK's greatest weakness as well. Although KAK - I believe - is already better and I have had some nice results, it's on my to-do list to get better core matting without having to crunch it. See how I get on.

Is it possible to send me a single frame of what it is you're trying to key? I'd love to take a look.

Send it to me directly, or watermark it if you wish - it won't go further than me in person.

I was using a closeup shot from the site you posted. It's an 8 bit png sequence.
We have some nice raw footage with little spill, but I wanted to give that shot a try.
The uploader here is giving me an error when trying to upload a frame, but you can download it from the original site you posted.

#9 SecondMan

SecondMan

    Flying Pig

  • Adv Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,797 posts

Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:35 PM

Don't forget to convert to at least 16 bit! :)

#10 ernesttx

ernesttx

    Flying Pig

  • Adv Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 113 posts

Posted 13 September 2012 - 04:49 PM

Is this 32 bit only? I downloaded and put it in my folder, but it isn't showing up anywhere. I have 6.4 rev 1092 64-bit Win7. Thanks.

#11 SecondMan

SecondMan

    Flying Pig

  • Adv Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,797 posts

Posted 13 September 2012 - 04:56 PM

Did you put in your Macros folder? Works with all versions of Fusion and only uses native Fusion tools.

#12 ernesttx

ernesttx

    Flying Pig

  • Adv Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 113 posts

Posted 13 September 2012 - 05:18 PM

Ah did not put it there :P hehe thanks SecondMan trying it out now.

#13 Pilalitos

Pilalitos

    Flying Pig

  • Adv Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 791 posts

Posted 14 September 2012 - 02:22 AM

Like I said yesterday I got very easily some really good results but when I rendered a sequence I found some stray hot pixels in some frames.

I am not sure what the reason is but when I find the time I will do some more testing!

#14 redoddity

redoddity

    Flying Pig

  • Adv Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 190 posts

Posted 14 September 2012 - 07:20 AM

Maybe at some points the alpha black is clipped, hence the hot pixels?

Also, you don't want to know what 'kak' means in dutch.

#15 SecondMan

SecondMan

    Flying Pig

  • Adv Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,797 posts

Posted 14 September 2012 - 10:31 AM

:)

Oooooh hot pixels not good.

Here are a few first things to check:

- Check your input is 16 bit at least
- Check the image weight for ringing artifacts. You should be able to get rid of them with Edge Erode. Also see if there is no more black in there.

If you think there is something else weird going on, could you send me a frame and your settings?

Thanks for testing!





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Macros, Matte, SecondMan

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users