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Kak. Or Ibk For Fusion. It Sucks Less.

Macros Matte SecondMan

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#106 fusionWannabe

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 11:15 PM

Ahhh, I spoke too soon. I merged it with a blue background to test.

When I turn on the new setting for the inverted garbage matte, there's a line to the right of her hand going all the way to the bottom of the image where the garbage matte cuts off the green screen.

And just below her knees, there's a horizontal band of noise right where the green screen meets the floor.

Simply unchecking 'garbage' gets rid of both.

I can understand how there might be a line at the border of the garbage matte, but I don't understand how the noise between the floor and the green screen could have been added by the garbage matte?

I'm including the comp and R3D's.

https://www.yousendi...TZ2d0NjlBSXNUQw

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#107 Tilt

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 03:11 AM

It's cool that KAK can deal with the transparent areas, but other keyers will probably have the same "problem". If you take a slightly different approach to garbage matting, you can prevent it:

- Don't use the garbage matte before keying. Do the key first and then use a MatteControl with your mask as a garbage matte afterwards. This will clear the unwanted areas.

- Before keying fill the garbage area with green instead of clearing it. Keyers like KAK will probably show the seam though so you would need to match the transition well by using gradients (or blur the mask which might cause other problems if the actors move too close to the edge of the green screen). This might be more trouble than it's worth but for removing tracking markers I usually go this route (painting them out almost seamlessly with green before keying).

#108 fusionWannabe

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 10:16 AM

It's cool that KAK can deal with the transparent areas, but other keyers will probably have the same "problem". If you take a slightly different approach to garbage matting, you can prevent it:

- Don't use the garbage matte before keying. Do the key first and then use a MatteControl with your mask as a garbage matte afterwards. This will clear the unwanted areas.

- Before keying fill the garbage area with green instead of clearing it. Keyers like KAK will probably show the seam though so you would need to match the transition well by using gradients (or blur the mask which might cause other problems if the actors move too close to the edge of the green screen). This might be more trouble than it's worth but for removing tracking markers I usually go this route (painting them out almost seamlessly with green before keying).

Using the MatteControl worked quite well! Thanks!

When you paint out your tracking markers, how do you deal with a moving camera, where their locations would change?

PS. from your description I can't say why you would get a better key when setting the foreground image depth to "Keep" instead of "32bit Float", but send me an image and your settings if you want me to take a look.

I moved to a new box and my prefs had gotten reset to 16 bits per channel.

I just changed them to 32 bit float, which is I think what you'd recommended.

BTW - I hadn't done much testing for the Final Render frames at once.

There's really a massive difference.

I ended up with 7 frames at once being best, but ... I also use NeatVideo's OFX plug-in in the flow, which probably affects this.

#109 SecondMan

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 11:18 AM

Simply unchecking 'garbage' gets rid of both.


Which tells me you are already using the Garbage Matte feature,so when OpenKAK Garbage is then set to =, the Garbage Matte will be replaced and the noise will come back. You need to set that to +, so KAK will combine the two.

And then what Tilt said, although there is another way, which is doing the same, but using the OpenKAK Garbage Matte feature instead of the MatteControl. I've attached an adjusted comp.

Attached File  KAK_2.6.4_garb_matte_PigsFly_001.comp   139.05KB   22 downloads

#110 fusionWannabe

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 12:11 PM

Which tells me you are already using the Garbage Matte feature,so when OpenKAK Garbage is then set to =, the Garbage Matte will be replaced and the noise will come back. You need to set that to +, so KAK will combine the two.

And then what Tilt said, although there is another way, which is doing the same, but using the OpenKAK Garbage Matte feature instead of the MatteControl. I've attached an adjusted comp.

Attached File  KAK_2.6.4_garb_matte_PigsFly_001.comp   139.05KB   22 downloads

Operator error!!! I hate that!

Yes, that fixed the garbage matte issue.

Thanks for pointing out the correct usage and changing the comp!!!

One other thing. In the single frame test comp, the ability to use the external clean plate stopped working for some reason.

I had an issue with my full length comp where even though I could see an image from the saver in a viewer, I was getting 2mb empty exr's for a Render.

I gave up on trying to figure why (just made no sense, the saver output was RGBA and identical to another version that worked), modifed the single frame test comp to pull from the original multi-frame clip, and ... now the EXR saver works.

But ... now the clean plate option no longer works (just as it failed in the single frame test comp).

If I set it to external after connecting it the the KAK.clean plate, the image disappears from KAK?

I'm no doubt missing something very basic again and making a dumb mistake?

#111 SecondMan

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 06:14 PM

Nope, it's not you - actually turns out it didn't ever work in combination with the Garbage Matting. :blush:

It should work now though:

Attached File  KAK_v2.6.5.setting   83.77KB   16 downloads

#112 fusionWannabe

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 10:23 PM

Yes, switching between external and internal now works and makes a perceptable difference.

Thanks!!!

For external clean plate, I can see wisps of her hair better, and a tiny bit of noise around one of her legs dissapears.

But the shoes have more noise in the shadows for external.

All in all, for a single KAK, the internal clean plate may be better?

I'll have to experiement with the more complex multi-KAK workflow you designed in an earlier post.

And come up with some kind of post-KAK CC masked to remove just the green on her lower legs - and try to soften up the knees a bit.

#113 SecondMan

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 01:19 AM

You're welcome :)

Good to hear things are going well - from what I hear your setup is, I wouldn't be too afraid to put a few KAKs in a comp and combine them. ;) Again, whatever works, works!

Here is something else to play with - I played around with some other keying algorithms, and a big thanks needs to go to Tilt for providing a good few of them, and I incorporated them into KAK.

Beware though, as this is experimental, a few things (or a lot) might not work or seem very strange, there is no manual for this anywhere and I am going to have less time to play again so use at your own risk or not at all ;) - no I haven't tested this quite as much as I should.

Anyway, for those of you wanting to have a go, look under Matte Extraction and knock yourselves out.

Keying algorithms added are Blender 2.64, 3D Euclidean, 3D Manhattan (thanks Tilt for those!) of which Blender 2.64 is likely the most useful as it's so close to the KAK one (although different enough in some cases to warrant its addition),
and a modest beginning for an HLS keyer which I might or might not pursue further but you can get some handy hard masks out of it really quickly...

The Red and Green/Blue weight sliders have influence on all the keyers, but they don't necessarily have anything to do with weighting the RGB, just so you know ;)

Enjoy! :)

Attached File  KAK_v2.7.0.setting   112.34KB   56 downloads

#114 xmare

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 03:07 AM

LOOOOOVE Your Work! :)
thx for sharing

#115 Kristof

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 03:14 AM

Used it in production and everybody was happy with the result. Thanks for the tool, Pieter.

#116 SecondMan

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 11:20 AM

That's very nice to hear! You're welcome, Kristof. :)





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