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Film Grain Tool


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#1 Francois

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 01:48 PM

I love the new Film Grain Tool, but i was wondering if it would be
possible to add to it the "Spread" tab available on the old Grain Tool... if so,
it would make the Film Grain Tool truly perfect!

SENDING THIS REQUEST to EYEON I was told:
"That option (Spread) is not likely to be added. The reason the curves were in the
older grain tool was to simulate the log curves of film, whereas the new
grain tool does that automatically."



I don't understand what they mean exactly... I use the spread tab to control the way grain is applied according
to the luminance of the image: the grain is stronger in darker areas and practically unexisting in the brightest areas.
In the Film Grain Tool, grain is applied the same all over the image, so I have to create 3 different Grain setups (shadows,
midtones, highlights) and the I use channel booleans to merge them together with lumakeyers to generate the effect masks.

Is there an option in the Film Grain Tool I overlooked? (I checked and unchecked the Log Processing option, but that didn't do much)

Thank You for any help/suggestions

Francois

#2 Gringo

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 02:21 PM

I totally agree.

Let me quote myself :)

Please, add the Spread Curves feature to the new FilmGrain tool from its predecessor. If you deal with a kind of severely pregraded scan with, for example, boosted shadows, you may want to adjust grain power for shadows and highlights separately. Of course, you can use a Luma mask, properly distorted with CCv, but such a mask would affect all three channels equally and the complete setup will look more complicated. --Gringo 04:37, 11 June 2010 (EDT)



#3 Tilt

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 02:56 PM

Here's a quick workaround for adding curves to the FilmGrain tool (or any other tool). I haven't tested it, but it should at least convey the concept :-)

Attached File  ImageMixer.comp   9.5KB   85 downloads


edit: There seems to be a bug in build 697 since the LUT splines in the custom tool are always labeled LUT In 1 etc... even though I renamed them...

#4 Tilt

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 03:02 PM

I don't understand what they mean exactly... I use the spread tab to control the way grain is applied according
to the luminance of the image: the grain is stronger in darker areas and practically unexisting in the brightest areas.
In the Film Grain Tool, grain is applied the same all over the image, so I have to create 3 different Grain setups (shadows,
midtones, highlights) and the I use channel booleans to merge them together with lumakeyers to generate the effect masks.


You could use the comp I attached previously, but if the "log processing" switch doesn't work for you at all, there could be a different reason... Are you using the grain tool on true linear footage or sRGB footage?

cheers
Stefan

#5 Gringo

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 03:08 PM

Nice solution, Stefan!
Thank you!
Added to the Compositions collection

Still, why not to have curves right in FilmGrain? :mf_fartnew2:
Could be a macro, but yet...

#6 Tilt

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 03:16 PM

Nice solution, Stefan!
Thank you!

Still, why not to have curves right in FilmGrain? :mf_fartnew2:
Could be a macro, but yet...


I agree B)

#7 Francois

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 04:49 PM

Wow!

Thank you Stefan!
This does exactly what I wanted to do!

I'll take a closer look to this setup on monday morning to fully
appreciate it!

Merci!

Francois

ps My footage isn't linear ... I've never applied grain on linear footage, mostly on log footage
Should I be doing this on linear ....?

#8 ihateforums

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 04:54 PM

the grain is stronger in darker areas and practically unexisting in the brightest areas.

Doesn't sound like you've got film grain then, or you're not using linear images. The log nature of film will make the grain stronger in the brighter areas, which is what the FilmGrain tool does if the 'Log Processing' option is on. It sounds more like you're trying to reproduce noise, which would have linear strength on linear data, but with gamma applied, would appear stronger in the dark areas vs. the light areas. For that, you could de-gamma your image, use FilmGrain with Log Processing turned off (or use the old Grain, which might be able to give a better noise structure), and then re-gamma.

#9 Eagle1

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 10:19 AM

How long do you need in Fusion to add Film- or Videograin to a CG Element to match exactly with the Film- or Videograin Footage :mf_fartnew2:

The four Year old Autodesk Combustion has an Rectangle Grainpicker, where you grab the Grain on a plain color on the Original Footage - and viola - ready for Finetune.

I don't understand - is this so difficult to implement - the current Film Grain Tool isn't time and userfriendly :rolleyes:

Because: I have many problems to match grain with Fusion to CG Elements as the same look as on my HD Video (Canon 5D MK II). Is there custom Control (setting) with the default Fusion 6 grain Tool to add CCD camera grain and to set Y-Channel to 0?

CCD Video has less grain in the dark and white areas and a lot more in the grey areas and also the grain is not round - quit horizontal (x=100 Y=0)

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#10 Pilalitos

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 11:39 AM

How long do you need in Fusion to add Film- or Videograin to a CG Element to match exactly with the Film- or Videograin Footage :mf_fartnew2:

The four Year old Autodesk Combustion has an Rectangle Grainpicker, where you grab the Grain on a plain color on the Original Footage - and viola - ready for Finetune.

I don't understand - is this so difficult to implement - the current Film Grain Tool isn't time and userfriendly :rolleyes:

Because: I have many problems to match grain with Fusion to CG Elements as the same look as on my HD Video (Canon 5D MK II). Is there custom Control (setting) with the default Fusion 6 grain Tool to add CCD camera grain and to set Y-Channel to 0?

CCD Video has less grain in the dark and white areas and a lot more in the grey areas and also the grain is not round - quit horizontal (x=100 Y=0)


I think you are confusing film grain with video noise. Two very different things!

If you are trying to match elements to footage shot from a Canon 5D then FilmGrain is NOT the tool you should be using. This is to match footage coming from film or making digital footage look film grainy. Fusion has other similar tools that can help you replicate digital noise.

Furthermore, the 5D is not using a CCD but a Cmos sensor which means that after debayering, it's noise does become kinda round (or blotchy) :-) What you are describing in your post is probably the compression artifacts from the 5D's awful codec.

#11 Tilt

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 01:08 AM

Combustion still profits from Flame's heritage sometimes :-)
for CCD Noise, shoot a defocused gray card or use a piece of sky (you can assemble smaller patches to get a full frame if you even out the luminance), blur it heavily, subtract from the original and you've got something you can add to your CG element. Do it in YUV space.
This allowed me to even match compression artifacts that looked like rectangular blocks in the chroma channels.

#12 Eagle1

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 04:45 PM

I know the subtract Method, but it its not full realistic with a small piece, Greycard ist wasteful for every Shot. I mean the Grain on Objects in Combination with Blur. I have to match this grain - see crop example red arrows - to the CG Elements.

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#13 Francois

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 08:27 AM

Hello "Ihateforums"!

You were right! The footage i was trying to regrain was shot with an HD camera, not on film...
I did get my hands on film footage to try out the film grain tool. I converted the footage
in linear mode and applied the film grain tool... It works almost perfect!

Thanks for guiding me in the right direction!

ps I would still love to see the spread tab reappear in the Film Grain tool, because sometimes
noise and grain can be similar

#14 Tilt

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 05:01 PM

ps I would still love to see the spread tab reappear in the Film Grain tool, because sometimes
noise and grain can be similar


The custom tool isn't such a bad workaround... I've added it to vfxpedia :-)




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