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Stereo In Fusion


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#1 fusioner

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 06:13 AM

HI All,

I am using fusion for last six years as a main tool for composting.
As project requirement; last 10 months I shifted to Nuke for the Stereo project. Even though it was new tool for me
I had good experience working Stereo in Nuke.

As FUSION being my primary tool ; for my next CG Stereo project I am shifting back to it with some concerns in mind.

I wanna ask out here to all for Guidance , feedback , Problems . DO's and Dont's , for Stereo in Fusion.

Few Questions I have in mind Like..

# How good / user friendly is Fusion for Stereo?
# If some one of have completed stereo project in fusion , then Hows experience? (What are the challenges you have faced?)
# whats the method of comp structure?
# What should approach be?
# Things to take care before starting the production?
# Do I need to comp Left and Right eye separately?
# How to take care of Polarization?

Your feedback is really helpful.

Thanks in advance,


Fusioner

#2 Nebukadhezer

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 11:33 AM

Hi Fusioner,

well I would say there is no real stereo workflow in fusion at the moment.
At our place we "brute force" instance everything.
Currently all tools that have splines in them have weired instancing problems, that occur almost always (eyeon knows so hopefully the next build will fix this)(causes fusion to crash)
Then the flows tend to get messy with bruteforce instancing.

Stacking is from my point of view not an option, although I ones made a macro that at adds a safety pixel boarder around each image, so that they dont get spoiled by each other...
but just dealing with masks is a unconvinient
for me it was not an option.

Starz in Toronto is converting Gnomeo and Juliette with Fusion at the moment!
So maybe you can ask them for some input...

At our place we comp our main eye (for mono release) and then have scripts that mirror the flow and link the loaders to the other eye footage...
We also have thought about having a post-render script (on the renderfarm) that creates the other eye!
But that of course works only with a flow where no seperate treating of the image is needed!

we have a dual projector screening room to check the stuff for disparity issues.
I would not use anykind of shutterglasses, we use anaglyph to count pixelparallax values. We have Zalman 24" screens at the workstations to get a nice stereo impression (works in interlaced mode, hence half res, but it is a very good s3d impression u get) and they are cheap (450 euros). Other circular polarized screens are from Hyundai at about 1400 euros.
We use a position pass (it is a full cg feature we are working on)
this is convenient for any kind of masks or relighting!
zdepth is also really helpful!


Finally there are no toe in cameras anymore in fusions 3d space (u can set them to parallel, to prevent keystoning and hence vertical disparity)
so at least the 3d space is usable for stereo productions.




Hope that helps

Johannes

#3 ChadCapeland

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 12:20 PM

If you have a position pass (or depth), a disparity map should be able to offset any masks or paint that you might make on one eye to the other.

#4 Tilt

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 12:43 PM

Finally there are no toe in cameras anymore in fusions 3d space (u can set them to parallel, to prevent keystoning and hence vertical disparity)
so at least the 3d space is usable for stereo productions.


What do you mean by that? The camera can do toe in and parallel AFAIK. (never did any stereo stuff though)


http://www.vfxpedia....ion_6/Camera_3D

#5 fusioner

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 11:32 PM

HI

Thanks Buddies! good help.

One thing I am not clear in your post about position pass. At my place we do use dept pass. and RGB light pass for avoiding relighting or do lil twike in lighting. But I guess not position pass. Plz explain or post one image for that.

Thanks

#6 xmare

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 02:10 AM

position pass is a pass in which each pixel's RGB values are it's XYZ world position. then You can use fusion particle systems to displace Your Beauty pass to fusion 3D space, with adequate position and relations in 3D space.... search this forum for position pass. it was discussed heavily.. Chad Capeland and other members have contributed a lot with different examples... there is also a very nice macro, which gets You position pass out of z-depth, written by robocop (here is His thread)

#7 Nebukadhezer

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 02:45 AM

What do you mean by that? The camera can do toe in and parallel AFAIK. (never did any stereo stuff though)


http://www.vfxpedia....ion_6/Camera_3D



sorry for the bad english here, I meant that one month ago there was no option to have a lens shifting camera rig!
Now since the last build it is there...

johannes

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#8 DavidGuaita

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 08:22 AM

Hi all...

Now Iīm also doing in my first stereo project.

About the lack of an Ocula plugin version for Fusion, Iīm trying to get a poormanīs way to replicate effects from one eye to the other.
When you install the Re:Twixtor plugin in Fusion (even the trial version) you also get a plugin called VectorCreate.

Vectorcreate is used to get the deformation vectors between two different frames (the vectors needed to warp de first frame to the second frame).
But you also can make a two-frames sequence, where frame0 is the left eye and frame1 is the right eye. Then Vectorcreate generates a disparity map.

I donīt know if itīs the best way to do it, but with Krokodoveīs Offset plugin and that disparity map is possible to warp the left eye, with any changes made on it, to the right eye.
Sadly is not a very straight process, but I think it works. And also, you need to buy the Re:Twixtor plugin.

Best.

#9 ChadCapeland

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 09:00 AM

You can use VectorCreate twice and refine the results. Goofy, I know, but it's true.

We have a tool that does the remapping... If you don't have your own Offset or Re:Map can do it (we wanted a more specific function in ours).

It's also easy to make a disparity modifier for Point data. I might clean that up and publish it if no one beats me to it...

- Chad

#10 DavidGuaita

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 09:24 AM

Yes, Iīm now trying it with real footage and it works.

The main problem is that the VectorCreate plugin cannot use an A / B input,
but a sequence of frames. So itīs quirk to generate the disparity map of a sequence.

ŋReally Ocula is $10000? It makes Re:Twixtor looks cheap. : )

Thanks.

#11 ChadCapeland

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 10:32 AM

It's a quirk, but with TSt it isn't difficult.

Ask Pierre for help. He might be able to come up with something for you... :)

#12 DavidGuaita

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 03:17 PM

Thanks Chad.

You know, it looks like easy to make it with a Timestretcher, but I canīt get it, itīs not that easy.

By the way, Iīve found that with another Re:Vision plugin, Re:flex (itīs a morphing plugin) you can
generate images with less interaxial distance. Basically, you use the plugin to automatically warp
between the left and the right eye, in a value between 0% and 100% of warp.
So, if footage has an excesive interaxial distance, with this plugin you can generate in between images.

But itīs very interesting to have a disparity map, in any case.

You mean Pierre Jasmin?

#13 DavidGuaita

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 04:08 PM

Hi all

Ok, it really was not so difficult. Iīve attached a flow that creates a disparity map between
the left and right eye sequences using Re:Twixtor.

Itīs also a little bit goofy method, by the way. :mf_fartnew2:

My comp has a horizontal transform in the left eye because my footage comes with the left eye flipped,
if itīs not the case you can simply remove it.

Once you have the disparity map, you can use the Offset plugin from Krokodove (free, thanks to Raf)
to warp the left eye to the right eye.

Iīve made a simple test and it looks like itīs working.

Best

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#14 robocop

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 02:20 AM

holy #@&$%!@()*& !!!!! :mf_dribble:
David! where i need to dispatch a beer\chocolate\...?

#15 Francois

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 03:24 PM

Thank you David!

Great stuff! I can't wait for our next stereo project to use it!

Francois




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